old salmon lure

Post Reply
mark C
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:30 am

old salmon lure

Post by mark C » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:42 am

Hi im from England and im looking for any info on
This is a old Salmon lure ive been told its from 1920-1930s and im not sure if its silver/pewter, it is hollow and wired straight through
if anybody know anymore about this lure i would be gratfull.
Image
Image
Image

Thanks Mark

User avatar
diemai
Master
Master
Posts: 2438
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:09 am
Location: near Hamburg/Germany

Re: old salmon lure

Post by diemai » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:14 am

Hi , Mark ,

............welcome to LureAndMore , mate thumbsupsmilie !

Sorry , but I can't tell nothing about your lure other than this type of lure is refered to as a "Devon-Spinner" , .....probably someone else in here could provide more info !

nice to have you here , ....greetz , diemai howdy
Hurts so bad living in a loony bin !

mark C
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:30 am

Re: old salmon lure

Post by mark C » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:23 am

Thank you diemai it does spin the same as a devon minnow and is hollow cant say ive weighted it but can if it helps anymore .

mark

User avatar
laz
Guru
Guru
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:35 am
Location: Emerald Queensland

Re: old salmon lure

Post by laz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:52 pm

G-day Mark . on the tail of your Salmon lure you will notice there is a Registration Mark Diamond .If you look these up you will be able to decode the diamond it will give you the class of material
Class of Material
From the 1842 Acts, product Class classifications were introduced. These were recorded on products in the Registration Diamond. For the whole period between 1842 to 1883 it was recorded as a Roman numeral in the top half-circle at the apex of the diamond. Individual classes of material had a different Class number, the most relevant for the Antique collector being, as follows:

Class I - Metal
Class II - Wood
Class III - Glass
Class IV - Earthenware
Class VI - Carpets
Class V and Classes VII to XIII were for paper and fabrics of various type.
Numbers and Letters in the Registration Diamond
The Registration Diamond has 4 arcs in the corners of the diamond. This is where the information is recorded for the Year, Day, Month and Bundle. The Day and Bundle are recorded as numbers. The Year and Month are recorded as Letters. The positioning of these numbers and letters changed from the 1842-1867 period to the 1868-1883 period. It is possible to determine which period the Registration Diamond falls within by the position of the numbers.
Using the Numbers to Determine the Registration Period
As described above, there are two Diamond Registration Mark examples. One that ranges from 1842 to 1867, the other from 1868 to 1883. But why did they change? Well the reason relates to the fact that the Year was represented by a letter. And if you do the Maths then you will calculate that there are 26 letters required to allocate a letter to each year between 1842 and 1867. So by 1868 all letters had been allocated.

What to do now? The decision was to reposition the letters and numbers displayed. The Year was swapped with the Day. The Month was swapped with the Bundle.

If there is a number located at the right or bottom of the diamond then the registration diamond period is 1842-1867.

If a number occurs at the left or top then the registration diamond period is 1868-1883.

Numbers relate to the Day and the Bundle. The Day should be self-explanatory. The Bundle is just a grouping of registrations into which a number of registrations were entered. This is sometimes called a Package. If the archives are looked at to determine all the information about a particular object then the Bundle number would give the general location that the information is recorded. It is similar to a ledger, where many individual details are recorded line by line. This is all that I will record on the subject of Day and Bundle.Month Letters for both Periods
Month letters were recorded in the right-hand arc in the 1842-1867 period. They were recorded in the bottom arc in the 1868-1883 period. The same Month letters were used for both periods and were as follows:

C = January
G = February
W = March
H = April
E = May
M = June
I = July
R = August, except when they forgot to change it from 1st to 19th September 1857
D = September
B = October
K = November, except when they forgot to change it for the whole of December 1860
D = December
This information is of no great interest to the Antique collector unless they wish to access the Archives.Year Letters for the Period 1842-1867
As outlined above, the 26 years between 1842 and 1867 were allocated a letter each. This way of indicating the year was in order to limit the number of characters recorded to one (1). They did not, however, make it easy for those coming after, to remember the letters associated with each Year. There is no logical correspondence between the letter and the year. I do not have an explanation for this. What I do have is a list of the year associated with each letter, as below:

A = 1845, J = 1854, S = 1849
B = 1858, K = 1857, T = 1867
C = 1844, L = 1856, U = 1848
D = 1852, M = 1859, V = 1850
E = 1855, N = 1864, W = 1865
F = 1847, O = 1862, X = 1842
G = 1863, P = 1851, Y = 1853
H = 1843, Q = 1866, Z = 1860
I = 1846, R = 1861.
Year Letters for the Period 1868-1883
Once all the letters of the alphabet had been used up for the period 1842-1867 something needed to be done. As noted above the decision was to change the position of the Year letter from the top arc to the right-hand arc. Letters were then allocated randomly for each following year for the period 1868-1883. The letters allocated are as follows:

A = 1871, I = 1872, U = 1874
C = 1870, J = 1880, V = 1876
D = 1878, K = 1883, W = 1st to 6th March 1878
E = 1881, L = 1882, X = 1868
F = 1873, P = 1877, Y = 1879
H = 1869, S = 1875
W was used incorrectly at the beginning of March 1878 because they mistook the Month Letter (March = W) for the Year letter.Although not all letters were utilised in the period 1868-1883 a new system of showing the Registration was adopted.Registration Numbers from 1884 to 1965
The Ornamental Design Acts BT50 & BT51 of 1883 created a regime for change to the Diamond Mark that had been used since 1842. From 1884 the Registration Diamond was replaced by a single number prefixed by "Regn No", "Rd", "Rd No" or some combination of these. "Rd" had been incorporated in the centre of the Registration Diamond previously and stood for "Registered Design" and showed that it was a Patent Office mark. This continued with the new method of indicating the registered design number. Finally, a logical sequence was adopted and the numbering started with 1 and increased in increments of 1 until the last number was allocated in 1965 at over 900,000. The list of numbers below shows the first number allocated for the first year of the decade.

1884 = 1
1890 = 141273
1900 = 351202
1910 = 552000
1920 = 673750
1930 = 751160
1940 = 837520
1950 = 860854
1960 = 895000
1965 = 919607
After 1965 the registration design number system became defunct.
hope this makes sense to you
Laz

User avatar
diemai
Master
Master
Posts: 2438
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:09 am
Location: near Hamburg/Germany

Re: old salmon lure

Post by diemai » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:50 pm

@ laz

This is very interesting , though pretty confusing as well crazysmilie -duh !

So this "Registration Mark Diamond" was placed on all products of materials being listed ?

These 1842 Acts , were they raised in Australia only or the entire British Empire of that time ?

Do you know about the purpose , .....I mean which were the initial reasons back in 1842 to have manufactured goods marked that way , ...........was it about registered designs and patent protection right from the start ?

Sorry for -offtopic , just find this very interesting , ..........

greetz , Dieter howdy
Hurts so bad living in a loony bin !

mark C
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:30 am

Re: old salmon lure

Post by mark C » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:53 am

laz wrote:G-day Mark . on the tail of your Salmon lure you will notice there is a Registration Mark Diamond .If you look these up you will be able to decode the diamond it will give you the class of material
Class of Material
From the 1842 Acts, product Class classifications were introduced. These were recorded on products in the Registration Diamond. For the whole period between 1842 to 1883 it was recorded as a Roman numeral in the top half-circle at the apex of the diamond. Individual classes of material had a different Class number, the most relevant for the Antique collector being, as follows:

Class I - Metal
Class II - Wood
Class III - Glass
Class IV - Earthenware
Class VI - Carpets
Class V and Classes VII to XIII were for paper and fabrics of various type.
Numbers and Letters in the Registration Diamond
The Registration Diamond has 4 arcs in the corners of the diamond. This is where the information is recorded for the Year, Day, Month and Bundle. The Day and Bundle are recorded as numbers. The Year and Month are recorded as Letters. The positioning of these numbers and letters changed from the 1842-1867 period to the 1868-1883 period. It is possible to determine which period the Registration Diamond falls within by the position of the numbers.
Using the Numbers to Determine the Registration Period
As described above, there are two Diamond Registration Mark examples. One that ranges from 1842 to 1867, the other from 1868 to 1883. But why did they change? Well the reason relates to the fact that the Year was represented by a letter. And if you do the Maths then you will calculate that there are 26 letters required to allocate a letter to each year between 1842 and 1867. So by 1868 all letters had been allocated.

What to do now? The decision was to reposition the letters and numbers displayed. The Year was swapped with the Day. The Month was swapped with the Bundle.

If there is a number located at the right or bottom of the diamond then the registration diamond period is 1842-1867.

If a number occurs at the left or top then the registration diamond period is 1868-1883.

Numbers relate to the Day and the Bundle. The Day should be self-explanatory. The Bundle is just a grouping of registrations into which a number of registrations were entered. This is sometimes called a Package. If the archives are looked at to determine all the information about a particular object then the Bundle number would give the general location that the information is recorded. It is similar to a ledger, where many individual details are recorded line by line. This is all that I will record on the subject of Day and Bundle.Month Letters for both Periods
Month letters were recorded in the right-hand arc in the 1842-1867 period. They were recorded in the bottom arc in the 1868-1883 period. The same Month letters were used for both periods and were as follows:

C = January
G = February
W = March
H = April
E = May
M = June
I = July
R = August, except when they forgot to change it from 1st to 19th September 1857
D = September
B = October
K = November, except when they forgot to change it for the whole of December 1860
D = December
This information is of no great interest to the Antique collector unless they wish to access the Archives.Year Letters for the Period 1842-1867
As outlined above, the 26 years between 1842 and 1867 were allocated a letter each. This way of indicating the year was in order to limit the number of characters recorded to one (1). They did not, however, make it easy for those coming after, to remember the letters associated with each Year. There is no logical correspondence between the letter and the year. I do not have an explanation for this. What I do have is a list of the year associated with each letter, as below:

A = 1845, J = 1854, S = 1849
B = 1858, K = 1857, T = 1867
C = 1844, L = 1856, U = 1848
D = 1852, M = 1859, V = 1850
E = 1855, N = 1864, W = 1865
F = 1847, O = 1862, X = 1842
G = 1863, P = 1851, Y = 1853
H = 1843, Q = 1866, Z = 1860
I = 1846, R = 1861.
Year Letters for the Period 1868-1883
Once all the letters of the alphabet had been used up for the period 1842-1867 something needed to be done. As noted above the decision was to change the position of the Year letter from the top arc to the right-hand arc. Letters were then allocated randomly for each following year for the period 1868-1883. The letters allocated are as follows:

A = 1871, I = 1872, U = 1874
C = 1870, J = 1880, V = 1876
D = 1878, K = 1883, W = 1st to 6th March 1878
E = 1881, L = 1882, X = 1868
F = 1873, P = 1877, Y = 1879
H = 1869, S = 1875
W was used incorrectly at the beginning of March 1878 because they mistook the Month Letter (March = W) for the Year letter.Although not all letters were utilised in the period 1868-1883 a new system of showing the Registration was adopted.Registration Numbers from 1884 to 1965
The Ornamental Design Acts BT50 & BT51 of 1883 created a regime for change to the Diamond Mark that had been used since 1842. From 1884 the Registration Diamond was replaced by a single number prefixed by "Regn No", "Rd", "Rd No" or some combination of these. "Rd" had been incorporated in the centre of the Registration Diamond previously and stood for "Registered Design" and showed that it was a Patent Office mark. This continued with the new method of indicating the registered design number. Finally, a logical sequence was adopted and the numbering started with 1 and increased in increments of 1 until the last number was allocated in 1965 at over 900,000. The list of numbers below shows the first number allocated for the first year of the decade.

1884 = 1
1890 = 141273
1900 = 351202
1910 = 552000
1920 = 673750
1930 = 751160
1940 = 837520
1950 = 860854
1960 = 895000
1965 = 919607
After 1965 the registration design number system became defunct.
hope this makes sense to you
Laz
Outstanding reply Laz
well in the top half circle is I so metal, then under the I is a N, to the left in the right arc is the letter M on the right arc is has a number 23 and the bottom arc is a number 4 and in the middle Rd

so whould the M=JUNE
N= 1864
Im not sure about the 23 and the 4

thanks mark

User avatar
laz
Guru
Guru
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:35 am
Location: Emerald Queensland

Re: old salmon lure

Post by laz » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:08 pm

Mark the Td in the middle of Diamond (or lozenge ) stands for registered design. I'm sure your lure was parcel # 4 to june the 23 rd 1864. I hope this helps you

User avatar
laz
Guru
Guru
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:35 am
Location: Emerald Queensland

Re: old salmon lure

Post by laz » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:20 pm

diemai wrote:@ laz

This is very interesting , though pretty confusing as well crazysmilie -duh !

So this "Registration Mark Diamond" was placed on all products of materials being listed ?

These 1842 Acts , were they raised in Australia only or the entire British Empire of that time ?

Do you know about the purpose , .....I mean which were the initial reasons back in 1842 to have manufactured goods marked that way , ...........was it about registered designs and patent protection right from the start ?

Sorry for -offtopic , just find this very interesting , ..........

greetz , Dieter howdy
Gday Dieter .
During the period 1842-1883 the British Patent Office issued a diamond mark along with the registration number when a design was registered.
As well as showing that the design had been registered, diamond mark offered the buyer the reassurance of knowing an item was of British design. It also assured the person registering the design a degree of protection from copying. The protection was dependent on the type of material and the class in which the product was placed.
The mark was created to identify the type of material used (known as the class), how many items were included, (sometimes known as bundles or packages, and the date of registration.
Note that the registration number does not form part of the mark. hope this helps you i'll see what i can dig up about australian marks on metal .cya
The centre is occupied by the abbreviation Rd signifying that this is a Patent Office mark standing for Registered Design

mark C
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:30 am

Re: old salmon lure

Post by mark C » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:30 am

Many thanks again laz,

User avatar
diemai
Master
Master
Posts: 2438
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:09 am
Location: near Hamburg/Germany

Re: old salmon lure

Post by diemai » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:48 am

@ laz

.............thanks so much for further background info , mate bowsmilie , .....very interesting indeed thumbsupsmilie !

Seems , that back in the 19th century the British counted a big deal on their native products , ...........did you know , that by the time they had founded (or at least demanded) imported German goods to be marked "Made in Germany" as well ?

This way they intended to protect and promote their own native made merchandise , ....but obviously it just turned out the opposite way , as people people could now identify the imported continental goods far easier , as these had the reputation of a superior quality !

greetz , Dieter howdy
Hurts so bad living in a loony bin !

Post Reply

Return to “VINTAGE METAL SPOONS / WOBBLERS / SPINNERS”